Though Emma Ruth Rundle is no stranger to playing in noisy rock bands, her 2021 album Engine of Hell stripped everything back. Prioritizing piano and acoustic instruments, it was a raw and uncompromising look at addiction, trauma and despair.

But after touring on it for years, she felt alone and isolated. So when it came time to put together her next album, Rundle filled the recordings with several of her cherished friends.

“The people that play on the record, most of them are people that I know and have known for a long time,” she says. “I think it's kind of magical to create something with your friends. I was starting to miss the company of other musicians and, even to some degree, the power that can come through with a whole band.”

 

These Killing Times is a return to that full band sound, while leaving plenty of room for genre exploration and the growth fueled by Engine of Hell. The different musical contributors leave their own mark on Rundle’s already impactful songwriting, which seethes with rage at the state of the world around us.

Across its eight tracks, post-rock, sludge, grunge and alt-rock fuse into one diverse entity, powered by Rundle’s evocative voice as she switches from breathy whispers to the occasional falsetto scream.

Rundle spoke to KNOTFEST about how Engine of Hell led to These Killing Times, the different flavors each of her friends brought to the record, and how

This interview has been edited for length and clarity

You created this heavy, traumatic album in Engine of Hell. What was it like then living in those songs when it came time to tour and promote?

Yes, that is part of the reason why I chose to pivot to doing a full band album. On my journey, it was a very necessary step. I am very proud of the work in that time, and I really enjoyed playing those shows. I got to play in some really beautiful spaces: churches and seated venues. It was just such a different experience compared to the more rock and roll setting most of my career has existed in.

But it was isolating and it was very inward facing. Like all hermit eras, I think it's a good time for that to come to an end. I was starting to miss the company of other musicians and, even to some degree, the power that can come through with a whole band.

So in response to that, how did you decide that ‘These Killing Times’ would be mostly you, but you’d bring in some friends to help accentuate some of the songs?

That just seemed like the obvious thing to do. I’d think about people that I want to hang out with and who have time to play with me.

Part of it also was I needed some support, mentally and emotionally. There was so much transition in the last couple of years, you need your friends around you. The people that play on the record, most of them are people that I know and have known for a long time. I think it's kind of magical to create something with your friends.

Like Patrick (Shiroishi) came in and he just channeled [the concept]. You give your friends a little room to have their voice, how cool is that? I mean, getting to hang out with your friends and make music is.. I think that's what's up, you know. [laughs]

Did anyone surprise you?

Oh yeah, totally. I will set this up by saying there were certain moments where I had certain people in mind for things. Every musician and every friend is different.

With Patrick, I don't really need to give too much direction because he's so versatile and talented. Such a deep feeling artist and a poet in his own right. There were certainly moments that were unanticipated.

We built the basic tracks: Troy Zeigler played on bass and Jess [Gowrie (Chelsea Wolfe)] the drums. We did the live tracking with my basic guitars and then we went over to Sonny [Diperri’s] studio, and as we flesh the songs out it kind of becomes more obvious where things are missing.

At the very last minute, I asked Gina Gleason (Baroness, Ecliptor) to play on the “Catherine Wheel” song, and she added these really badass '90s kind of guitar lines. It totally changed the song for me. Just her voice in it, through her guitar, did something surprising to the song and elevated it in a way and added like this flavor that I never would have.

It's like a recipe, you know? Everyone's coming in and bringing their flavors. Bryan Tulou came in and played some guitar on a song and added this one part in “Enough” that was really cool. It was really psychedelic and not something I would have thought of.

Nick Reinhart, who I just adore. He's a brilliant guitarist, and he's so accomplished in his technique and his tonal understanding. I was like, ‘Okay, you know on Siamese Dream, that one guitar solo? I love that.’ He knew exactly what I was talking about and just came in and ripped the solo on the song "Human Kindness.”

There’s spontaneity there too, because it's like who's in town right now? When we got to the very final stages, I asked Marissa Nadler to add some vocals at the end of one song.

 

You’ve worked with Sonny Diperri (Nothing, Animal Collective, Portugal. The Man, Blackwater Holylight) on Marked for Death, Engines of Hell and other projects. Why keep going back to him?

Because Sonny and I have a friendship. I feel like this record could almost be called The Friendship Record. Having friendships, relationships and community are so important right now. I needed that personally to move through my life. My music project and my art, I can't separate it from my person, my life, and my experiences just living as a human being on Earth.

Sonny and I have been friends since we met. I love him. I love his family. His work is incredible. I thought he would be not only be great to hang out with for a month, but that he is doing something in his career which I really love.

He has a great understanding of the history of the music that we both really vibe on, but he's modernizing in a way. He's working a lot in shoegaze these days, and I just thought he would be the right person to capture what I was going for. The genre melding thing. Sonny gets it.

Over the last few records your vocal technique has taken on a more breathy, more airy effect sometimes. It’s almost grown and changed from the past record to this one. Was that something you also carried over?

Thanks for noticing that. That’s probably my favorite thing about Engine of Hell, that aspect of it. Touring on that for so many years, there's so much more I can do when I'm by myself with an instrument.

Having done my earlier records and coming from a lot of touring with Marriages and in (other) bands, I simply cannot sing over a band unless it's in this very specific range. It has to be loud enough to cut through. It was always a problem for me touring, vocals being any of the quieter, wispier stuff.

On this record too there’s a couple parts where I do this Rob Halford kind of ‘AAAHHH’. I just want to have some fun moments for me, and if someone thinks it sounds like a cat getting run over, that’s fine. Maybe there’s some croney, witchy energy that I’m bringing. I’m getting older and my voice is changing.

I did want to have space for some of the quieter, breathier tones, and then sing in a more powerful voice because I’m angry. It’s not a passive feeling, you know? The last record was a very despairing record, so it made sense to be a little more soft-spoken. This is the time to speak up.

Despite the records being vastly different in tone and what you’re putting forth, where do you find them being similar?

Tonally and emotionally tone wise they're very different. There are some moments that are similar and more introspective. Leaving the record at the end with the question, ‘What will we do beyond the valley of the fear of all men?’ The last record ended with wondering what our place is in the universe and these bigger questions that we all kind of ruminate on in this life. So I think some of that is similar.

The first song I wrote was the song "God's Picture", which I do think is probably the most callback to Engine of Hell with its sound, arrangement and writing style. Then, as I kept writing the record it got a little more like rock.

I would say that probably those philosophical questions: Thinking about life, the history of humanity, and where are we going? Where are we coming from? How does my personal experience, maybe a microcosm of what is happening at large in some way? That I think is a similar theme across both records.

 

Things obviously weren’t great when you were creating the last record. Hopefully you’re better this time around. What was it like creating this record this time around?

It's very easy to say that six years ago I was just desperately trying to get sober and trying to figure out what is at the root of my addiction issues. Very inward exploring the darkest things, right?  Since then, I've gotten sober and I've maintained my sobriety one day at a time.

I'm a different person now, but I'm also the same. I still have depressive tendencies and I'm a bit of a hermit, and a bit lost and confused like some of us are. But I have more agency, even in a small way. So much is different. I live in a different place.

When I started writing this record I set out to write a hopeful record. I was like, I can't do the meditation on sorrow. I don't want to tour that for two years. I feel like I'm programming my brain to look for sadness and grief and tragedy.

Did I succeed in this album? I'm not sure. I think it's imbued with a lot more anger, which I perceive to be a much more activating place to be. Anger can result in action, whereas despair tends to be more passive. You're just really not animated or able to do much.

So I think that you can still sense some downtroddenness in this record, but there's more of an energy to it.

Is there anything that sticks out as your favorite part of the album?

My favorite moment on the record is in the song Anvil. There's this bridge, and Troy and I played these hand drums on it and it has very Kate Bush energy to me. The lyric is "I bring a bright burst of light down over you.” I like that moment a lot, and then I get to do my little Rob Halford voice.

In the last couple albums there are references to books or other writers. The milk of human kindness is a line from Macbeth, where she's kind of cutting him down. It's such an evocative image and holds so many different physical associations. It was such a striking set of words that it inspired me to write a whole song about the layered complexity of humanity. How violent and loving, and tender and insane, and the sexuality of it. Just all these things at once existing.

What do you want people to take away from These Killing Times, if anything?

That they are not alone. Yeah. They are not alone.

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These Killing Times is available everywhere via Errant Child on September 18th.

Emma Ruth Rundle performs solo supporting All Them Witches from Oct. 10 through Oct. 30, and with a full band supported by Cinder Well from Nov. 24 through Dec. 19th. See the list of dates and cities below.